Chester Moore's Flounder Q&A Part 2
Q: When I go fishing, I generally target trout or redfish and not necessarily flounder mainly due to my poor catch record over the years for this specie. Can you describe and possibly send me a picture of the best all around bait and presentation which can work for flounder and trout?
A: There are a number of different kind of rigs out there. My favorite for flounder fishing in the marshes and along shorelines in the bays is a 1/4 or 1/4-ounce jighead rigged with a soft plastic curl-tailed grub and tipped with shrimp. I am also getting partial to the same rig but with a Gulp! shrimp or curl tail and no tipping. Probably the most popular and overall effective for live bait and plastics as well is the Carolina rig which you will see in this illustration by Texas Fish & Game Saltwater Rigs Editor Patrick Lemire. It basically consists of an egg weight rigged above a swivel and attached to a leader and hook or lure.
Q: Do your readers know Rollover Pass is one of the premier locations during the fall flounder run?
A: Yes they do. The importance of Rollover Pass is well documented and supported by the public particularly on the Upper Coast. We need to do what we can to keep it open.
Q: Can drifting be an effective method for catching flounder?
A: Yes it can if you drift over good structure and drift slowly. There are tons of flounder on our oyster reefs in Texas but these are hard to fish. Using something like the Lindy No-Snagg Sinker in conjunction with live mud minnows over reefs can produce some big flounder. You will need to use a drift sock (or two) and try to focus your runs on trenches on the reef and any kind of subtle drop-off. In bayous drifting live baits slowly with the current can work as well.
Q: Do you think the state record for flounder will ever be broken?
A: That's a tough one but yes I think it is possible. With the new regulations set to cut harvest down dramatically and bycatch at a near all time low due to a HUGE reduction in the shrimping pressure and the bycatch reduction devices in place we could see some monster flounder appear again. An interesting note that I have observed and one that has been verified by Texas Parks & Wildlife Department biologists is while flounder numbers are down, the average size seems to be on the uptick in some bays. This is probably a product of bycatch reduction which could in the future translate to some mega-flounder.
Q: What do you think about the theory redfish are what is causing the problem with flounder? Some are saying there are too many reds and they are devouring the flounder?
A: Some are saying we never landed on the moon too but that does not mean it is true. This is the kind of conspiracy theory stuff that drives me nuts but that is easy to shoot down. Louisiana's Lake Calcasieu has an amazing flounder fishery, better than any on the Texas coast. They also have by far the best redfish fishery on the Gulf Coast to the point of a limit of reds being no big deal to anyone. By the way, that is a Louisiana limit of five. If reds were the culprit with flounder, Calcasieu would have a terrible flounder fishery but that is not the case at all. Something else to consider is Calcasieu does not have widespread recreational gigging or commercial harvest of flounder as compared to much of the Texas coast. Redfish a problem? No. Commercial harvest and gigging? Yes.
A: There are a number of different kind of rigs out there. My favorite for flounder fishing in the marshes and along shorelines in the bays is a 1/4 or 1/4-ounce jighead rigged with a soft plastic curl-tailed grub and tipped with shrimp. I am also getting partial to the same rig but with a Gulp! shrimp or curl tail and no tipping. Probably the most popular and overall effective for live bait and plastics as well is the Carolina rig which you will see in this illustration by Texas Fish & Game Saltwater Rigs Editor Patrick Lemire. It basically consists of an egg weight rigged above a swivel and attached to a leader and hook or lure.
Q: Do your readers know Rollover Pass is one of the premier locations during the fall flounder run?
A: Yes they do. The importance of Rollover Pass is well documented and supported by the public particularly on the Upper Coast. We need to do what we can to keep it open.
Q: Can drifting be an effective method for catching flounder?
A: Yes it can if you drift over good structure and drift slowly. There are tons of flounder on our oyster reefs in Texas but these are hard to fish. Using something like the Lindy No-Snagg Sinker in conjunction with live mud minnows over reefs can produce some big flounder. You will need to use a drift sock (or two) and try to focus your runs on trenches on the reef and any kind of subtle drop-off. In bayous drifting live baits slowly with the current can work as well.
Q: Do you think the state record for flounder will ever be broken?
A: That's a tough one but yes I think it is possible. With the new regulations set to cut harvest down dramatically and bycatch at a near all time low due to a HUGE reduction in the shrimping pressure and the bycatch reduction devices in place we could see some monster flounder appear again. An interesting note that I have observed and one that has been verified by Texas Parks & Wildlife Department biologists is while flounder numbers are down, the average size seems to be on the uptick in some bays. This is probably a product of bycatch reduction which could in the future translate to some mega-flounder.
Q: What do you think about the theory redfish are what is causing the problem with flounder? Some are saying there are too many reds and they are devouring the flounder?
A: Some are saying we never landed on the moon too but that does not mean it is true. This is the kind of conspiracy theory stuff that drives me nuts but that is easy to shoot down. Louisiana's Lake Calcasieu has an amazing flounder fishery, better than any on the Texas coast. They also have by far the best redfish fishery on the Gulf Coast to the point of a limit of reds being no big deal to anyone. By the way, that is a Louisiana limit of five. If reds were the culprit with flounder, Calcasieu would have a terrible flounder fishery but that is not the case at all. Something else to consider is Calcasieu does not have widespread recreational gigging or commercial harvest of flounder as compared to much of the Texas coast. Redfish a problem? No. Commercial harvest and gigging? Yes.
Chester.
You have you're opinion and I can respect that. I hope you can respect mine too.
Concerning rec gigging, you're opinion is flawed just like the TP&W krill surveys. No one probably cares more about the Flounder population than a rec gigger considering the dedication and monies put into our endevors. I would debate this with anyone but there is only so much info that can be conveyed in a thread but I will tell alll of you this. For the past several years I am seeing more and bigger flounder and it's only gettting better, not worse.
You can point you're finger all you want but rec giggers are not the problem. Fact is. There is no problem at all.
V/R
Bert in Bacliff
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I'm on record as not being against recreational gigging per se but if you look at the numbers coastwide the combination of commercial and recreational gigging are what is taking the largest toll especially on a per angler basis. If gigging had never been legal and we tried to legalize it today we would be laughed out of the room. However since it is a tradition we allow for it with restrictions and that's fine by me. In fact, I suggested it in working toward these regulations. I did ask for a longer closure but am cool with what we got. The data we have to go by is what the Texas Parks & Wildlife Department has and they have shown an uptick in the last couple of years but even with that we are 50 percent below 25 years ago. And yes the creel surveys are flawed in one way. They don't have current night tracking for gigging activity and if they did undoubtedly the gigging end of the harvest would be much higher and they will admit that. I hope you have a great fall and gig your legal limit every time you go out. It's allowed and if you enjoy it, have a blast!
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You sir are completely blind by your obvious success from gigging. I know for fact the chance to harvest more and larger fish are through gigging. The success rate of a rod and reel angler doesn't even come close to the rate of a gigger.Gigging is as effective as seeing a shirt you like and purchasing it. FACT MOST MATURE FISH ARE GIGGED! And the flounder population is not stable and not yet on the uprise. I fish a average 4 to 6 days a week my catch of legal flounder are fair to none. When i say fair im not meaning a old 10 man limit or even a current 5 man limit. Im mean catching 10 to 12 fish max on great days with 2 or 3 fish being keepers. I myself wasn't aware of the impact that the fish has gone through until i researched the fish. Opinions may vary but FACTS are CONCRETE. So politely may i say research the Flounder population and see where your thoughts stand against FACT.And sadly to say yes there is a problem. Frank/Lake Sabine
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You sir are completely narrow minded.
You think gigers are in mass every night but you are wrong. In our muddy waters conditions have to be almost perfect for gigging so THE FACT IS giggers are not out every night but on the other hand, thousands of people are dragging the coastal shoreline on any given day with a fish finder rig snatching flounder and maming many that are to small with a hook. I stand firm the hook and line does WAY more damage than the rec gigger. At least a rec gigger is not blindly stabbing little ones and throwing them back, we see a keeper and we harvest. You on the other hand catch a gut swallowed 12" Flounder and release it mortaly wounded. I would bet if gigging was the only legal way to keep a flounder the population would soar. Put that in you're pipe and smoke it.
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I have read both Q & A No. 1 & 2 and really like the questions and your answers. Keep it up.
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2112 your argument is flimsy.
Are there more overall fish taken by rod and reel? Probably so simply because there are far more rod and reel anglers out there. But if you look at the limited data available on gigging numbers the average rod and reel angler according to the latest surveys who is seeking flounder with rod and reel caught like 1.25 per trip. The average gigger was 4.5. Plus, you cant tell me a lot of fish are not gigged, measured and thrown back because they are barely undersized. All you have to do is look at the areas with the lowest number of giggers and see they have the highest number of flounder. Sabine Lake's flounder population according to the latest data is higher than any other area in Texas and there are very very few giggers due to water clarity issues. I have nothing against allowing some gigging if the fishery can sustain it but there is no way it is not having a huge impact. Lake Calcasieu in Louisiana is another fine example Very few giggers lots of flounder. Like Chester wrote if gigging were never legal and someone tried to make it legal now it would never be allowed. It is no different than say allowing bowfishing for redfish and trout but its tradition so we allow it. As far as anyone putting something in their pipe to smoke, I'll one up you. If we banned al gigging, commercial and recreational, there is no question the population would soar.
Justin D.
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Your comment is exactly right. I agree with it all. As it stands now gigging is the largest threat to the Mature Flounder Population. We need to all realize that the harvest of gigged fish are mostly mature females. With the takeing of these fish populations drop.The more large fish we release are pass by the quicker we all will see results.And as for Bert, if gigging was the only legal way to harvest flounder the population would almost certainly decline even faster. The point is giggers success rate on the harvest of mature fish excels way beyond the rod and reel. Frank/Lake Sabine
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This is from George who posted on another thread. I thought it was relevant to this conversation.
George wrote:
Chester,
Could you tell me the growth rate of a flounder? And at what size the fish has to be in order to reproduce. I think if you explain this more pepole could see the importance in the release of large fish. Thanks, Bill
P.S. As of now a none gigger, i can tell you that we used to gig 20 plus inch flounder on a steady basis. And had limits of these fish simply because we pass up smaller ones. I no longer gig and know that your data is correct first hand. Also after the years larger fish were few and between.Your move and thoughts are correct,gigging is a threat to this awsome fish.If gigging was never legal the population would defantly be greater.
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Justin and Frank.
You men see it you're way and are convienced you're way is right so let me get one last shot in at both of you.
THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH REC GIGGERS OUT THERE CAUSING THE HARM YOU CLAIM. Most of us have only the weekends to gig and of those 8 possible gays to gig at least half are blown out due to wind or the tide is all wrong! You're accusation is week because you obviously don't know what it's like to take gigging seriously. You see a problem and point you're finger at those who you wish to make the fall guy. You claim we go around punching holes in small fish, measure and throw them back. That there tells me you have no clue because any seasoned gigger can tell the difference right away between a legal AND undersized fish BUT THE ROD AND REEL IS LIKE THE LONG LINES IN THE OCEAN CATCHING AND MAMMING INDISCRIMENTLY WAY MORE THAN THE GIG.
The bottom line is the rec gig and the few nights that that gig gets to work is insignificant compared to the indiscrimenet daily pressure of the hook and line. Quit grasping at straws and take a look at you're own actions and on the next flounder run look around to all the gut swallowed under sized flounder being released by you and you're friends. You are the one doing more damage to the recource compared to the gigger. You combined takes are much larger and you're mortality rates are off the scale compared to the combined efforts of the gig...Need a lighter?
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Well seems that you still havent done any real research yet. So here we go bottom line gigging is much more effective than a reel. When casting that grub out there i have no idea what may hit. I can't see the fish and chances are that something else will hit the bait . With you on the other hand you see the fish.Makeing the effort to harvest the fish as easy as taking a breath. Read a few research articles on your local body of water. The flounder population is Down.Down state wide. Thats a Problem!!!! Hey i love your argument but it's not based on FACT. And as far as you taking another shot at me hope you dont run out of bullets. Because i am concrete on my facts. Gigging should be a unlawful act. Can't shoot a deer at night and thats how i feel about gigging. Huh???? Wonder why you can't shoot deer at night,maybe because the population would fall. Or maybe because its to much of a advantage< and fewer deer would live to reproduce. Sounds like to me not much diffrence at all between a deer in that manner and the flounder. Frank/Lake Sabine
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